amanda

Coffee & the Holy Spirit

A conversation with Amanda Ruston

VIEW ISSUE 81 FLIPBOOK

Could you tell me a little bit about the congregational setting that you’re in? 

I work at St. James’ in the Downtown East Side. I know people use the word ‘diverse,’ maybe too liberally, but it is quite a diverse congregation. 

If you were to sit in our pews, I think you might be struck by how seamlessly and naturally people from very different demographic backgrounds sit side by side together and worship. A person that’s street involved might be sitting beside somebody who is very affluent, and they worship together quite naturally. 

And that’s one of the greatest beauties of the congregation, is that it’s so naturally diverse and so equally focused on the beauty of worship and worshiping God.

And that same diversity extends to coffee hour. Again, people who are from a variety of different backgrounds are there and they’re having conversations—they’re learning about each other and talking about all manner of things: current events and spiritual stuff and books that they’re reading. Anything you can think of. There’s a guy who sometimes brings his guitar and busts it out in the library. 

That’s what church looks like at its best, right? When people are brought together in the love of God, and all the other barriers come down a little bit. So, in that beautiful space, what does your own ministering look like? 

That has changed over the years. When I first started at St. James’, I was a student intern doing theological field education. During that time, I was ordained a deacon, then I was priested and did a two-year curacy, and then I did a year of being Associate. That year solidified some of the things that I’d learned in my curacy and helped prepare me for the role that I’m going into now, which is Priest-in-Charge. 

My colleague and now friend has retired, and I’m in charge of the care. My role is to continue making sure the parish runs well, but also helping to guide them through this next transitional stage. The congregation has to put together a parish profile and sort of figure out who they are. Not just who they have been and who they are today, but who they would like to be—”Where are we going next and what kind of person will help to lead us into this next stage of our ministry?”

In some ways that’s like the official job title for what the church is having to do across the board. 

At this point the parish is doing it on a small scale, but I think you’re quite right in that the church as a whole body needs to be doing that constantly. 

Our whole job as the church is to proclaim the gospel in our time and place. And in every day and age, that changes. So if the church isn’t constantly asking, “How do we proclaim the gospel in this time and in this place?” we’re kind of missing the point. 

It is always a transition. We’re just really good at pretending it’s not. 

It kind of reminds me of the Jonah story.

The Holy Spirit is always pushing us into something new…Yes.

We can be so stubborn about change sometimes, but there is a vocational aspect to changing in a way that’s in tune with what God is calling us to do and be, right?

And also faithful to the tradition that we’re stewards of. The tradition is important, and it’s beautiful, and there’s lots of treasures in it—we can’t just chuck it all out and start over. The Holy Spirit is always pushing us into something new, and I think our challenge is finding out how to hold the beauty of our tradition and the necessity of change together in harmony.

Just a little question!

Yeah, just a little one.

Has there been anything that you can think back to during your time at VST that has helped to prepare you for some of that work? 

I think that VST has a treasure of amazing faculty and professors that are so, so good at holding what can sometimes be the dryness of academia and the vibrancy of faith together in a wonderful balance, and I had the joy of having that as an example all through my time at VST. I’m really glad of that. 

But on a more temporal level, about half of my time at VST was spent during a global pandemic. 

I went from commuting from Langley by bus every single day to come to school and be in person, to pray together, to attend lectures together, and to have that time in the student lounge—to talk together and to share ideas and collaborate and commiserate—and all those things were so important for those first couple of years that I was there. 

Then all that got taken away, not just for me but for all of us. How we did everything had to be redefined. 

And the thing that strikes me the most even now, looking back, is how joyfully and optimistically and compassionately the school responded to that unique challenge. 

That experience, both as a student and observing the way that the school responded, really is a blueprint for the church. 

We’re always trying to navigate the unknown. We don’t have a map of where we’re going any more than we did then. 

But we continue to be here and the church will continue to be here because it’s God’s. It’s not ours, it’s God’s. So somehow, we’ll find a way through. We have to continue to be faithful to that.

Definitely. Well said. 

I’m curious if there are other things that you encounter in your parish ministry where you think, “Oh, I’m glad that I came across this in seminary?”

I think one of the great things about VST is that it is ecumenical, so you’re not together with people who all think the same way as you. Getting used to being in compassionate dialogue with people who are very unlike you is really good practical training for ministry. 

The key thing for me is not to just tolerate differences. 

I hear that word a lot and I don’t like it. I’ll be really honest. 

If we are going to be God’s holy church, we have to learn to love each other truly. That means loving our differences. 

I think one of the great things about VST is that it is ecumenical, so you’re not together with people who all think the same way as you.The beauty of parish ministry for me is seeing how each person shows up so differently, and yet they’re all showing up the way that God made them. 

God loves us when we’re so different from God. And that’s how we’re supposed to love each other too. 

We’re not supposed to try and make each other like ourselves. We’re supposed to show up and love that person for who they are—exactly who they are. 

I think one of the great things about VST is that it is ecumenical, so you’re not together with people who all think the same way as you.Rather than seeing a person’s idiosyncrasies as being annoying habits, I’ve begun to learn to see people’s differences as how they speak as the person that God made them to be. 

Maybe that’s how they’re saying, “I love this church and I love God.” Or maybe not, but if I lead with that assumption, then it makes life in church a lot easier. 

That’s actually how I learned toread at VST. 

When I first started, I would read things I disliked with a suspicious lens. Like, “Oh yeah, this person’s wrong,” and I’m making notes in the margins of my page about how they’re wrong. 

And then, over time, I learned to read with a much more generous eye and heart to say, “Okay, this person is showing up the way that they know how to show up, with a totally different worldview from what I’m in and possibly a totally different perspective of church than I have. So how about I read that they’re showing up in the most faithful and authentic way possible and that this is the way that they show love to God?” 

And that changes everything when you can see people in that light.

Do you think that at VST, being in an ecumenical setting and being with people of the same tradition who might think about things very differently was a good training ground for generous ministry?

I was encouraged by one or two professors specifically to read generously, so that was directly taught. 

Having conversations both in and out of formal classroom settings with people that are different from you is something that’s just part of the ethos of VST. 

If you’re showing up with an open mind to learning, you will get that organically. 

I would love to hear a little bit more about some of the challenges and the delights of your congregational life. What’s your favorite part about your job? What’s beautiful? 

The best? There are so many great things…. The best part about being a priest is getting to celebrate the Mass.

There’s nothing that standing at the altar won’t fix. 

And just to extend that to the other ways in which we administer the sacraments. There’s something so profoundly special about being able to be part of people’s growth in Christ and their relationship with God. It’s a privilege beyond measure. 

That’s incredible. And then on the flip side. What challenges you? 

Particularly in our neighborhood, I think one of the hardest things is being present alongside folks who struggle with things that are disintegrating their God-given lives. And what’s really, really hard is loving them and wanting the best for them and knowing that you cannot fix their problems for them. You can just be alongside and love them. 

At St. James’ we specialize in the ministry of presence, which is bringing God’s church into the neighborhood and reminding them how much they’re loved and how important they are in God’s eyes and how beautiful they are. Just being that visible presence of church in a world that doesn’t always get the respect that they deserve. 

But one of my colleagues put it like this: “Touching the world’s wounds is actually being present for that suffering.” So that does mean your heart has to break. It does mean you have to hurt for people that you love.

Thank you for telling me about that. I’m glad that there are people doing that ministry. 

You’ve already talked to me about some of the ways that VST was part of your training and formation as a minister. Are there ways that VST could continue to support you in your ministry? 

Personally, I’m looking into doing a PhD through the liaison with Durham. And so that is a very practical way in which VST continues to be an important part of my ministry and my learning going forward. 

I think the fact that you continue to have sessionals and offer audit rates for people who are in ministry—that’s so, so, so important. 

It’s really important to continue Biblical training because all that keeps growing and changing year by year, and if you don’t keep up to date then you just become a bad preacher. 

One of the things that VST does super well is not just specifically training for ordained ministry, but training for all kinds of ministry.Having courses that are accessible for regular people is really important.

There are always going to be people who want to pursue a little bit deeper into theology but don’t necessarily need to be ordained. 

Lay ministry is really, really important. And I think that VST does a really good job of lifting up and supporting lay ministers in a way where they can feel comfortable and confident, taking a little bit of theology and bolstering their discipleship, which makes the church so much better, so much richer as a whole. 

I hope VST can continue to say, “How do you imagine your ministry in the church and in the world?” Because there are different ways of being God’s people. 

That’s really great to hear. Thank you for sharing that. 

To wrap things up today, what gives you hope for the future of the church? 

I think what gives me the most hope is something I said to you earlier—that ultimately this is God’s church.

Humankind has tried to break the church many times over the course of history. And nobody yet has succeeded. 

All we have to do is keep showing up and preaching the gospel and loving people.There are all these pew reports saying that the church is in decline and all the numbers are failing and we’re running out of money and there’s nobody coming to church anymore. And I’m like, “Y’all aren’t actually coming to church, because you’re not seeing what we’re seeing.” 

There are new people coming to church every single day. 

There is growth happening, and it’s growth in a different way than there was 50 or 100 years ago, but it is still growth. 

God’s spirit still lives and breathes in the church and will continue to do so, because it is God’s holy church. 

All we have to do is keep showing up and preaching the gospel and loving people. It’s all we have to do. 

It’s simple, but it’s not easy. Like everything Jesus taught. 

Simple but not easy. That’s a very good way to put it. 

We’re helping build the Kingdom of God. That’s amazing. If that doesn’t get you up out of bed in the morning, I mean, I don’t know what’s gonna! That and coffee.

I’ve got lots of stuff going on in my life and so sometimes people are like, “How do you manage it all?” And I’m like, “Coffee and the Holy Spirit, obviously.” 

That’s a potent combination. 

I’m so glad that we were able to meet today and have some coffee, and it’s been so wonderful talking with you. 

Yeah, it has been. Thank you very much for the invitation.


Amanda Ruston (OSBCn) is a vowed Benedictine and Priest-in-Charge at St. James’ Anglican Church in Vancouver’s Downtown East Side. In addition to the parish ministry she loves deeply, Mother Amanda is currently illustrating a book by VST professor Rob James. She plans to begin work towards a PhD thereafter. Mother Amanda earned her MDiv from VST in 2022. 

Interview edited for length and clarity.