Interview with Rev. Mary Nichol
Earlier this year Rev. Mary Nichol, Director of Theological Field Education at the Vancouver School of Theology, sat down to talk about formation, practice, and creativity.
CSB: Why is theological field education (TFE) important?
MN: Theological field education is important because VST is training and forming people to be out in the world with people. That field education portion is critical, I think, to learn how to navigate being in a congregation or a community group from a place of faith, but also with self-awareness and resilience, and to be able to move through a lot of unknown.
You’re going to land in places where you’re not sure, so how do we start to build that toolkit? I think that TFE helps to build the toolkit because you’re practicing a little bit here and a little bit there. You get to practice and reflect and go, “Is that me? What could I have done differently?” And then have other voices to help form, “Okay, I would do this again, but I wouldn’t do this again.” So when you land in a different environment and go, “What the heck’s going on here?” you can start to pull on all of this that you’ve put in your toolkit.
I think it’s a place where the head stuff can come into being, but then all the rest of you. It’s this complex place where you can start to pull apart, but then put back together, who you are as all the different parts of you. I think it’s pretty vital to be able to practice that in this environment.
CSB: It seems like an essential part of formation for ministry.
MN: It is essential, I think. It really is. The technical knowledge comes with experience, for sure. But that more complex being internally and how you react, how you behave in conflict, all of that kind of stuff, it takes formation. It’s an art, and you have to practice it again and again and again.
That’s the other thing about TFE. I think it can start to really help with lifelong learning and engagement to know that we don’t always have it all, and that’s okay.
CSB: What about your work brings you joy and inspires you?
MN: Creating that space where a connection happens to people, to their faith, to bigger existential questions. Because those questions are always undergirding. “Who am I? Who is God? What am I meant to be doing in this world? How might I live my life?” Death, freedom, all of that sort of stuff has deep meaning, but you can get there by playing a board game or planting a garden and harvesting and sharing fruits. Paying attention to those moments is a joy.
CSB: Who is Mary? What were you doing before your work at VST?
MN: I’m a parent of two young adult daughters and a spouse of 27 years. I love gardening. I love houseplants. I’ve taken up knitting. I like to create. I also love to read. I’ve been known to stay up all night.
I was raised up in Children, Youth, and Young Adult ministry faith formation. So there’s been that creativity of designing and thinking holistically. It’s not just about your head, but it’s about your body and your heart. The paying attention to people and how they engage and connect, and trying to create the space where things can happen and God can take over, that’s where the creativity gets played out. Noticing where people’s interest are and then going, “What can we do to connect you to other people or to each other and your faith?”
CSB: Are you finding ways to channel some of those creative energies at VST? What’s that like?
MN: Oh, it’s a joy. It’s definitely joyful and delightful and hard. But I enjoy creating space in the classroom where people can share. I’ve been able to bring some pieces in from the work that I’ve done with all ages, like Play-Doh and felt and pipe cleaners, that for some people can really help free them up to be able to engage in the emotional work that you need to do.
I think the other thing that I’m learning and really interested in is asking good questions to help people discern what’s going on for them. And so there’s that creativity of paying attention to people and asking good questions.
CSB: Is there a recent project that’s been particularly exciting?
MN: In recent courses I’ve led it was so exciting to be in that space of doing and reflecting. Constant doing and reflecting.
In “Where Theology Meets the Soil” this summer, we were able to do and reflect in the garden. We could be in the garden with other people, see what happens in the garden and then what happens with the produce from the garden, and have all these other conversation partners. And then weave in, “Okay, so what are we learning? Let’s engage in scripture and pause and reflect.”
In this course, the invitation to share personal reflections daily in the form of music or video was helpful for people. Sometimes we speak somewhat different languages when we reflect. Maybe it’s just in silence or writing. But what about art? That creativity and imagination can help unlock “Aha!” moments.
CSB: VST has a grant from the Lilly Endowment that’s being used to reimagine field education here. Do you want to say a little bit about some of the concrete work that’s going on and that you’re excited for?
MN: Well, it’s exciting that we have it! To be sinking into how to strengthen and enliven TFE, what’s going well, and then noticing the gaps, and then having the funds—what a blessing—to be able to address the gaps. So that’s exciting.
One thing that’s come up is developing a website for TFE! It comes from thinking about a way that we could connect supervisors and support them. We could have resources there. And it brings things alive in a way. You can have testimonials and all those kinds of things.
So the website is a fairly concrete piece. And out of that I’m like, “Okay, so there’s supervisors and mentors and then there’s students. How could this support students, communication-wise? And then what about the locations within which students are placed?” So that’s exciting. And a lot of work, but exciting!
The website can also help with recruitment in terms of saying, “Okay, what’s this program look like? What do you mean by TFE?” It can help potential new students make a decision on whether to apply here if it’s the right fit. So that’s exciting too.
CSB: It seems like a robust theological field education program would be an important criterion to look for!
MN: Definitely.
The other piece that’s come up is the Learning Hub model that “Where Theology Meets the Soil” was leaning into. So a place—in the summer it was in Kelowna—where you get to be in reflective conversation with a variety of people: with your peers, with faculty, with people that are on the ground doing particular things.
You bring students into this kind of course that’s rooted in the reflection, action, reflection model, and in conversation, and then encouraging self-reflection for the student.
It’s really hard to reflect in your day-to-day life unless you carve it out and say, “Okay, this is where I turn everything off, and it’s me and God.” So that was exciting to see that come alive for 10 days and see how it sat with students.
And then there was the movement, the daily rhythm that was repeated over several days. A rhythm of being hands-on in the garden. A rhythm of coming together and reflecting within scripture and reflecting again and then eating together. It was beautiful to see. That’s exciting to see that come alive.
It was not just head work, which was valuable, but it was a whole source of hand, heart, soul work. With the mind.
CSB: Fully embodied.
MN: I think that that’s the goal. That is what we do in ministry. We hope to be fully embodied when we’re working with people. And to encourage all those different aspects. So that’s exciting to learn from that.
And that would never have happened without the Lilly grant and funding. Because it took a lot to bring people together. One student came from LA.
So, concretely, amazing experience. I was really grateful to have been a part of that.
CSB: Sounds like a beautiful program!
You’ve talked about gardening, knitting, being a voracious reader, bringing people together, asking the right questions, formation, children and family ministry…
So thinking about all of those things, what is a book that you would love to rave about?
MN: Well, one that comes up is a short read. I’ve been in a book club for just over 20 years that started out as a parent and tot group that I coordinated, and now I’m the youngest member by about 20 years. We just read A Psalm for the Wild-Built by Becky Chambers.
What I absolutely loved about it, and we all loved, is it’s set 250 years in the future but it’s not the apocalyptic future. The main premise is that robots had gotten sentient and said, “You’re not using us anymore. We’re just doing a mass walk out.” And they left and went out into the wilderness. So this world now doesn’t have much technology, and they’re really connected to the land.
The main character is Dex, who’s a monk. They are trying to figure out their place in the world, even though they’re a monk, and they’re feeling restless. One day a robot comes out of the wilderness to discover what it means to be human. The relationship? Amazing. The questions that are asked are amazing. This thing that opens up and blossoms, this friendship and connection between them, it’s just filled with hope and light and life and meaning.
Thanks for asking me about a book!